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This portion will take you into the depths of the mind of Demishadow on rules. Well not really deep, just a surface scratch but enough to tweak the interest. This gives you a small peek into his seedy little mind and how he views the rules and such.
Section 2: Rules Coordinator's Take
For those of you that don't know the rules are finalized by one man and one man alone. That man's name is demishadow, the Rules Coordinator. He has his own forum for suggestions and is fair and just and listens, but that doesn't mean we can't attack him and by attack I mean interview and ask questions. For those of you that don't know the rules forum (which if you must know is used to discuss rules is here Rules Discussion Forum
Cashew+> Its an IML game and a player is lagging in and out before match and they continue to keep him as a starter. Almost 5 seconds after go is called he lags out again how do you proceed when the team wishes to put him back into game?
Demishadow> Rules based... the player should be burned
Demishadow> There is also a bit of a long standing tradition that the ref often doesnt burn
Demishadow> So, ive seen it go both ways often. I personally burn.. I should follow my own rules ;)
Cashew+> Its a pro game. All 4 slots have been subbed for by one team. They message you wishing to sub a slot after a player who just died so a new pilot can ride out the last life. How do you proceed?
Demishadow> This is a sub after a sub (aka lagsub). As such, the timing after the death isnt important. The player is burned
Cashew+> In an AML game the score is Warbirds 3 and Levi's 4 and the regular match time ends. Which Team wins?
Demishadow> This one I would need to actually check my rules. There has been some change in the last season or so on this... including the removal of a large section of 3v4, 2v3, etc game winning minimum score conditions
Demishadow> Ok, based on the question, it goes into OT
Cashew+> Same teams. Its Overtime now which hopefully you answered and the Warbirds kill a Leviathan 5 seconds before overtime ends. How is the game recorded?
Demishadow> so score is 3 to 4. It becomes 4 to 4 after the kill (assuming im counting ok)... Tie game
Cashew+> A captain requests a sub 1 minute before the 10 minute "Sub Burn Mark." The subbed player continues to play and doesn't spec until after the 10 minute mark has passed. Do you burn the incoming sub?
Demishadow> ooo, ooo, the burning question. This has had 2 different refinements this season due to a "re-shuffling or re-setting" of precideces because of appeals
Demishadow> so, until that is cemented (and yep, im still working on changing it more for next season due to non perfect staff agreement on it)...
Demishadow> in this case, NOW, the player should be burned because he did not satisfy part b of the clarified sub procedure
Cashew+> A pro player lags out and they wish to sub in a new player. What is the correct procedure?
Demishadow> upon request for sub the player is subbed into that slot (assuming player has not played in this game). The player is burned (this is assuming its NOT within 1min of the players last death + they did not ingage + he isnt a sub already)
Cashew+> A player is constantly spamming racials during a match. How do you handle the pilot? He is flying.
Demishadow> I am very strict while reffing. The set of conduct rules say I should be such while reffing my games. I will often not appriciate such antics much. I often give a warning first (or two). If those are not heeded I spec or ban the player...
Demishadow> and ask the team to give me a sub for him.
Cashew+> How long is overtime?
Demishadow> prembots will disagree with me, but it is now 10min
Cashew+> alright now time for your special set of questions
Demishadow> did I pass the ref application test? ;)
Cashew+> that ain't the ref application test
Cashew+> that's cake easy :)
Cashew+> that's my super secret project alpha ref-itude test
Cashew+> and by the way you are the Rules God so far with only one problem I see and I can't figure it out without ur help
Demishadow> hehehe. that test has changed a great deal over time. Mine was very little rulebased, more a way to try to judge personality of the ref... but its been ages since I did that stuff
Cashew+> rule 8.6p
Cashew+> Each player slot may be subbed for more than once. What this means is that a slot may be subbed after the first and second death.
Cashew+> why do they qualify as lagsubs?
Demishadow> good point. I think I was off. Eh, 1:30am :)
Cashew+> yeah. that rule is crazy
Demishadow> I will need to check to see if another rule is in effect at the same time
Demishadow> which is often the case.
Cashew+> but under the lag sub rule any player that subs a slot twice is treated as a lagsub
Cashew+> I can't figure out if the intention was that you can sub as often as you like in pro unburned because its for pilot not repels
Demishadow> ok, the one rule is stating it IS possible to sub it
Demishadow> another rule is providing a guideline of what subs should be burned
Cashew+> but they refer to it as a sub and not a lagsub in this case
Demishadow> lagsub is a bit of a bitch... bitchy terminology left over from a long time ago now.
Demishadow> im looking it up right now
Demishadow> bah 9.1 is pointing to a now nonexistant rule number :)
Demishadow> Note: The terminology "lag sub" no longer refers to substituting a substitute player who has lagged out. It now is generally used to describe anyone who subs in for another substitute.
Demishadow> that part is key to relating lagsub terminology and the order of subs
Demishadow> my answer appears to have been correct afterall :)
Cashew+> but way too confusing :)
Cashew+> I'd probably a let them come in unburned as a new sub
Demishadow> rulebook can be hard to comprehend at once.
Demishadow> I know it from extended usage + seeing all the changes take place over time
Demishadow> ive seen thousands of posts by now about all different aspects of the rules, changes to the rules, etc.
Cashew+> alright. you pointed at this one question I have.
Cashew+> what is the deal with tradition versus the rules
Demishadow> rules should be the final call
Demishadow> How things were done 2 years ago... and how they are done informally in pracs... shouldnt regulate how you ref your game
Demishadow> because we have had a past tradition of allowing NTS doesnt mean it over
Cashew+> so why is it that the traditional refs are the ones that appear to be on the appeals board?rules todays rules which dont allow NTS.
Demishadow> traditional refs?
Cashew+> ones that ref with rules that have already been around
Cashew+> but aren't around..ie the ones that don't burn uneganged players etc/
Demishadow> I know of one or two that ive seen pass of directions based off previous rules.. but I try to correct that. It is kinda a widespread problem I find with our oldest refs. And sometimes a bit of an issue I have myself :)
Demishadow> the "appeals board" membership is parallel to the staff membership
Demishadow> its full of people who either have knowledge of the areas at hand (rules.. me... appeals procedure.. cose, ref-baed stuff.. ref coords)
Demishadow> people who run the leagues... sysops.
Cashew+> ooh word twisting time :)
Cashew+> so you'd say the problem lies in the upper staff?
Cashew+> and not the newer refs that ref according to the rules?
Demishadow> many of these people have been around for a while (its kinda a big requirement to get up to staff)
Demishadow> so, many will fall under the old-timer's refs... and they tend to fall into that same problem I listed above
Demishadow> I think its a problem of when you learned your rules. What they were when you actively worked with them first sticks big into your memory
Cashew+> any major problems you see with rules?
Demishadow> there are always problems with the rules... and that will continue to be the case.
Demishadow> before this season I never imagined that the subbing procedure would need to have 2 points to it... but an appeal proved it was necessary... regardless to how I may disagree with some of the appeals outcomes ;)
Cashew+> will bigger badder bots be the answer or will they make refs even more lazy?
Demishadow> hopefully they can fix many of the more trivial issues that arise
Demishadow> I am not a fan of having no refs. I am a programmer myself, even working in the field of AI... I can say with some confidence at how a ref-less society may have issues running things.
Cashew+> is there any rule you want out there that you have been fought tooth and nail on or any major gripe you have with being held back in the rules coord depart?
Demishadow> I tend to get good freedom. I take guidelines from appeals/etc that come up.
Demishadow> I guess there is one rule we adopted from aml in the premier-merger... which I liked the pro version more
Demishadow> was the no postpone rule.
Demishadow> otherwise... I really wish there was a machine out there that could take the rulebook + precidences and spew out a fully defined fully complete rulebook that is also simple on the refs+players ;)
Cashew+> Demishadow you are that machine.
Cashew+> is there any chance that we may see a rule come along one day that says unegaged players don't need to burn?
Demishadow> I need a timeframe in the game for that.
Demishadow> I may have one of the best understandings of the rules + precidences out there in SS... but I am not the person to make that happen
Cashew+> who is that person?
Demishadow> I am hampered by my knowledge in regards to that. Some things are just to obvious to me that I am oblivious to it being a problem
Cashew+> perhaps a council...with you and cose leading it with players instead of staff?
Demishadow> which is part of the reason why we have a rules forum. So I can get opinions from the general ss population.
Demishadow> councils are good... but they also have a large overhead.
Cashew+> what if you just called it one night randomly and the people that are online make up that council and that's the way its developed
Cashew+> as a random town hall meeting by you and cose and a few invitees
Demishadow> and im not sure if the benefits are enough to add another degree of complexity/bueracracy (sp???) to premier league
Demishadow> its somethign to consider as we near/hit the offseason. Inseason my inclination to update the rulebook isnt high... unless proven necessary
Cashew+> yeah yeah. any final words of wisdom?
Demishadow> only fools think they are wise.
Demishadow> the rest of us just try to stumble along and not make any stupid mistakes
Alright that's it for the interview with Demishadow. It was all off the top of my head and horribly done, but he had good answers an interesting insights. I think I could have done a better job, but just a little insight is all you need and he was pressed for time. If you still got the balls here's the link to Part 3: Past vs Present vs Future.
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